There are two main things that he talked about; one was ‘join your local real estate investors association and I did that and then he also talked about wholesaling and I also did that. Sandra: Okay so let me make sure I am getting this right. Purchasing a tax reverted property you will likely need to quiet the title to clear the title free of any other claims and to purchase title insurance. You can kind of read between the lines of how I feel about that. One was a condo that we purchased and it ended up was going through the foreclosure process at the same time as it was going through the tax deeds sale and so what happened with it was that apparently sometime after we bought the tax deeds sale the bank applied with their Attorney for the Certificate of Title. I’m a big believer in helping people to help yourself get to as far as you want go. Obviously Philipe has done most of yours but one of us will speak at your events, that will be another time that you guys can pick our brains. Distressed ugly looking houses and I wrote down the addresses of these houses any time I came across them. Once you do start making a bid, you start feeling more comfortable. Our biggest client base are those people who do a couple deals a month all year long. You can Google us as well. That’s how I assess my risk to find out, friend or foe here. Without title insurance, it is difficult to sell or finance the tax deed property once you have become the successful bidder. They’d be surprised at how much they actually did learn cause it is a lot of information much of this is running title searches and pick a property even if you don’t have the money. The title company goes, “yeah Sandra, we don’t want to take that risk on. The cost in that running. One of the things that I also realize is that you’re also an investor as well as a title guy and business owner. The Tax Title Services Alternative to Quiet Title Actions. What are you going to do? Dave:   You don’t. By the time I left that company in 99, we were doing 50,000 mortgage foreclosures a month, 26 million dollars in business and I had foreign employees in my unit. And the other part is if you’ve already been by the property, if you’ve talked to the owners, you’ve already made contact, is the property abandoned? Let’s go back to some basics. So let’s talk about….. First, let’s talk about what’s title insurance. Florida is our biggest state and we love Florida because there’s tax sale going on every day. I know how to work my way around, get the information that I need. But imagine having this asset and can’t do anything with for 6-9 months and mean well and stretching forward as you’re probably aware. The website is a very extensive website. Dave: No, no. What’s title insurance? A quiet title action is a lawsuit that is brought in circuit court to clear a party’s title to real property. “So hey Sandra we can do this in the court or we can do it out. Palm Beach County contest that. Remember back when you first got your license, your driver’s license and the first time you went to go drive? So because of that we know that not every title company is going to insure you. There are many situations when you might want to file to "quiet title." They got a full price contract for172,000. You think after 15 years the title companies would feel comfortable. “Oh yeah Dave you know, I’m going to be honest, I kind of inherited this deed, my parents were going to retire. You are getting your hands muddy, you’re getting dirty with these people, you’re bringing them forward.” And so the quiet titles sometimes are won without the people getting actual notice where our service is always make contact and make sure that these people know about the tax sale, that they get notified…. We took that same result because we will flush out the adversarial party without suing them and we will do… So that’s why the title companies don’t see any of that and why they can feel comfortable because we are not presenting those. You had something else you are going to say? You should be able to certify it.” Well you’re seeing predictable behaviors, obviously Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Chase…. If you already have that ready to go, the policy in place which sometimes we recommend when you are selling…. You want insurance protecting you against that and that’s what title insurance does. Title insurance is just like another insurance policy kind of like your car insurance. You don’t just teach it, you actually do it and that’s what separates you from a lot of others. Sandra:  I know exactly what you’re talking about. Sandra:  And we got 67 counties and most of them are on line. Isn’t that the risk that title companies try to minimize? Sandra: Come down here Dave to the field trip. Dave: That’s right. Dave:  Right. Dave:  Well how we got it cleared up is I just told you. Go check out the… If it’s a rehab, go check it out later see how much wok they put into it. If they’re things that you want me to discuss or people that you think we should bring on as a good resource for you, let me know. If you provide the title commitment in a foreclosure file, sometimes we can write the thing in a day. But the concept again was I wanted to retire….. Cause technically that’s going to work but obviously they’re still foreclosing. It was about something you know, bad or something awful that happened. We get that same result in 30-60 days just by picking up phones and doing hands on curative work. You can send your questions. So we recommend and also again we talked about being able to negotiate from full market value instead of discounted values as a buyer you don’t have the title, somebody like myself who knows that you don’t have their title, I’m going to negotiate you down. But other title companies have come on board and we don’t just work for First American. CFRI has been around a long time. I had been self-instructed I invest in tax deeds and I’ve been doing it since 1995 so I’m one of you guys. Don’t go over your number. We are only presenting the ones that have gone through the net and have survived the process. The government or anybody can take a property from you without giving you legal notice to your right. Cross collateralization liens are huge. So, I started doing what rich dad said. Sandra:  That is precisely right Dave. We only charge you 750 of that upfront as a nonrefundable deposit and that just covers our initial things that we pay for you like the title search that costs $250, our review fee to look at it is 375 and then the skip tracing to locate affected parties to make sure that they were notified, that’s another 150. Then even if you didn’t learn you can always pick it up later on in life. So imagine one of these heirs out and says, “Sandra, my parents passed away. Now, because we know that, the title registry doesn’t like to insure these things, that’s why they require quiet titles right. How to Make 10,000 Offers a Week in Less Than an Hour. Dave:  Heck yeah right. The other buyer, holding out for me to do the quiet title, lost. Quiet title exists to create a free and clear title on the property. So while I was doing that, I found out about ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’, Robert Kiyosaki’s book. That became our problem or the title company’s problem and not yours. Again, it’s kind of like, when I talk about this stuff…. We need that money. We’ve worked with Westcor. “Hey Sandra if you don’t pay your taxes you’re going lose your property. It is 25,000 and under, 25 to 50,000 in value, 1500 to 15,000 in value, you can actually see what we charge and what the estimated costs are. I could speak their language and the same thing here with tax deeds. What can we do to make the process easier? I’ve got a title policy from Westcor. Ok so let’s talk about some basics on title insurance. That’s what our product does and we’ve been doing it for 15 years, we’ve certified over 15,000 of these and this is just nationally. Title is… the deed. Some of these properties are bad and the code enforcement liens are very strict and in Florida they are very, very aggressive. In fact First American recently is reevaluating tax deeds. You need to disclose everything. At the same time that comes just from knowledge and all that. We ran the title. He got notice. We love Florida. How are you doing?” “Dave doesn’t tell me you got wiped out by a tax sale again.” “Yep. Alright and joining me right now is Dave Schumacher with Tax Title Services and I have to say one thing that I am happy about that I came across this company pretty early on in my tax deeds investing. This was Palm Beach County. They just go and they go past their number sometimes. Title insurance protects you and the lender on your home from claims against the property resulting from such issues as contractor’s liens, unpaid taxes or property disputes. He’s traveled down to the field trips and done events and come down and speak and talk to our investors, very, very knowledgeable. And you’re like, ok. And it wasn’t until I saw a fabulous deal for a printer that I realized I had sentimental value attached to that printer because it was the first bit of money that I actually earned in the real estate and it made me so proud to buy something with my own real estate money that I never got rid of that printer as long as I was in the business. Sandra: I think it is even more work than is being done at the quiet title process. Looks like a notice was sent to you and not delivered. Go to a sale because then you can actually start applying some of what you learn. So I made some good money wholesaling and I remember the first piece of equipment I ever bought with my business money was a all in one multifunctional printer and that printer I had for like several years. I learnt how to create these products and I started my own company. Same thing if you sued in court with an attorney but then faster and cheaper because we are not attorneys. You will get caught up in auctions cheaper and when you over pay, cause you’re like, “oh I’m at my number and I’m going to bid 5000 more”. Dave: Well we are the pioneer. Because it cost too much to fix it they more likely charged off because it isn’t worth them to foreclose, fix the property up, put it back on the market, pay a realtor and go through that. Of course that’s why you do your two day boot camps…. If you are relying on a title policy in the name of your relative who gave you the property by quitclaim deed, you are not covered by the title insurance, in which case file a quiet title action. Dave: Yeah. He wants the court to give him the judgment. So in 1995 I found a full commercial on tax liens and I was up late one night so I went to a seminar because I get these calls on tax deeds. Luckily for both of us, I have more like-kind property that I can sell him, which won’t require a judge’s ruling. Can you talk about that? We are so we make sure that nobody can come out and attack it or if they could at least we can defend it or at least win it or know that no one is going to come forward after all of these years. Happy investing. We’re seeing who wants to come out and sting whether it’s the former owner, whether it’s the mortgage companies, whoever has interest at the time of the tax sale even if they got notice you know they still maybe adversarial and we may step into a frivolous claim, so cause we talk about hierarchy of risk, this is all about risk. “Well Dave everybody got notice. The other was, learned to do wholesaling and that was the part that I didn’t believe that you can do. Dave: One exception that is in there is related to what is called marketability. Before I got into real estate in 2004, I was in the television news business. I’d go back, you know, and check out a deal that happened and see what they paid for it, what I thought the value of it was, how much money they made on it and then that’s what enticed me when I was sitting on the fence cause it is kind of daunting and difficult when you don’t know anything about this business to actually get in there and do it when most of the times the investors that you know are not out there doing tax deeds. One buyer wanted to hold out for title insurance, even though it was going to put him behind. But again, if you have the foreclosure file, that helps. “Hey Mr. Home Owner for 500 buck you’re going to lose this property anyways how about you authorize the release form so I can actually talk to Wells Fargo? We have qualified over 25,000 deeds for title insurance using this process for the past 20+ years and have a 99.5%+ success rate. A quiet title is a term that refers to ensuring that there are no claims against the title of a property. I know when I’ve done this before some people, what’s title? I was like, what, there’s no way that you can buy properties. If you get an address for the house, you look it up on the local assessor’s website or Property Praisers website. Dave: And they’re getting notices. I have removed the cloud from the title by tracking down all previous owners and getting them to sign a Quit Claim Deed and a mortgage release when applicable. He’d need to personally appear in court if there was a hearing. So what I did was…. Dave: Ok. We charge 750 to 1500 dollars on an average up to $150,000 now that’s our fee. We need to pay these taxes to secure our interest so we can continue to foreclose. I told both buyers that it makes sense for me to sell the property to the first person who wants to give me money for it. For the second buyer, he knew he had until my court date to make a decision about that. I actually was dealing with VA Foreclosures in 1993/4 out of Florida I’m from California but back in the day I had no money and being in college in California you need a lot of money to buy things so I could buy a three bed and two bath, bread and butter home, in a middle class, in the school district for $40,000 and the VA gave me all the financing to do it, 7%, fully assume the loans. They are in mortgage foreclosure. So the caveat to this is there is an exception to marketability meaning we have to, let’s say look… you have marketability defined as the insuring titles company’s willingness to insure you in the future. Why don’t we send her another notice? If you are sued because of a lien or because someone else claims title to the property, then the insurer will defend you in the … She’s like, “No Dave, my title is ready to go. Would you need social security? I sat there in 95. One of them is a former title agent of mine and the other is attorneys who were working with clients of ours. Click here to subscribe via iTunes (coming soon), Click here to Subscribe via the RSS feed (non-iTunes). You want protection from them to come at you and try and take your title from you later once you’ve owned it or you’re trying to sell it and the other part is, seller you want to open your market place or your buyers to buying it from you and if they want to get a loan, the lender is going to require title insurance for them to feel comfortable to lend the money to your buyer to buy that property from you [inaudible 25:48]. Sandra:  Why? So you got to deal with that…. Our service is what is called a certification service, basically an underwriting. So I bought mortgage foreclosing titles so I could speak with Attorneys. That’s how I got into it. For the second buyer, he knew he had until my court date to make a decision about that. Well the owners are just waiting for the mortgage company to kick them out because they’re in foreclosure. Now isn’t that the same results I you quiet the title in court and Wells Fargo contest it and 9 months later you settle? Liens that are in the city’s name, water, sewer, electric bills and especially code enforcement liens. Welcome investors to The Queen of Tax Deeds podcast, uncovering the real estate secrets of making money with OPT, Other people’s taxes. So like all the times in your file trips you know you guys will do a drive by, buy a property that you may be wanting to bid on, we actually on every property do our due diligence to assess the risk of challenge. So because they can’t collect that money they open it up to investors to buy taxing certificates, to give them 5% on their money, to order them to collect because they need that money and then if they don’t, nobody redeems then they will sell an auction to another investor which is usually what I’ve done and I think the two day boot camps are about where you actually would go, Sandra correct me if I’m wrong, you guys will actually sit down, go to an auction probably and do a model auction where you’re just watching cause I’ve always recommended that too. So Philipe, he or I, we speak at those events. You have insurance to protect your car in case it crashes and protects you against liability. Now, that’s going to take you six months or longer in most markets. So I started on… At the same time I was studying mortgage foreclosures, I was just graduating from college and the first job I applied for was [inaudible 19:00] ManagementTrainee position, Title Insurance Company. Now if Sandra can come back and tell me, “Yes, Dave I went through Tax Title services and I got the certification and I got a title insurance policy from their underwriter and now Sandra and I are going to talk market value. Getting Marketable Title on a Tax Deed without a Quiet Title In this Session we discuss the process of getting title insurance on Tax Deeds. We try to give current news but everything [01:17:10 distortion] you can place your order online, you could track your order online, you could pay online. “Hey Sandra, Dave Schumacher, Tax Title Services, looks my client purchased your property o tax sale, you didn’t pay your property taxes. I was a Vice President there’s and develop this national foreclosure group for them. We obtain title to a unit through a HOA foreclosure in 05/13. Knowing that title claims are at all-time lows, title insurance should be on the same endangered species list as the desert tortoise. There is a four-year-old in Florida for people buying in Florida it is after four years, is called a statute limitations period meaning after four years, the former owners and mortgage companies can’t attack the title. That’s a pretty good deal. No they have charged up. And if you guys want to reach out to Dave, how can they find you guys? And so if you had…Sandra and your students had a 30-60 days process also a cheaper process. You’re not sure what to do but three or four months later if you attended auctions you’re actually now bidding, you see how it works and you get comfortable. On the second day we go an actual auction but I always tell the students, “listen you are not going to learn to do this until you actually go to a sale especially after you’ve done the training and you’ve learned about it. And so like five or six, seven years later it was time to get a new printer and it really was hard for me to let go of that printer because it symbolized, you know and new part of my investing business. There are two types of policies available, a … I’m 47 now but in my early 20s, I was always excited about real estate and passionate about it and I remember the ‘No Money Down’ books. So that’s the noticing. You’re an investor too. Miami Dade County got notice. Actually will post auctions there. Sandra is part of your team, I am part of your team. And you’re getting a $1000 a month. They talk to their partners or relatives, whoever is involved ad they’re ready to sell. A tale of two buyers. So then you contact them again you could do this in court by suing them but why don’t you just pick up the phone or we will. Can we get a notice?” “Of course. The real estate developer cannot receive marketable title or obtain a title insurance policy on the Family Farm until these defects are cured. However, because my quiet title court date was set a couple months off, it was going to put him a whole year behind for doing the planting. We will put the link the Tax Title Services and all the other resources discussed in the show notes on my website You all can contact me by going to my website, Again check the website, the pricing schedule. I believe its or .org but I’ll put that in the notes. So I know that when you try to go sell… Sandra wants to sell me a tax deed and I am going to go, “Sandra did you clear the title?” and Sandra is going to go, “well no I don’t Dave I’m just going to do a quick clean on this one”. I think I may have probably been in the business two or three years when I found Dave by just doing a search on line and it’s probably one of the best things I ever found. So tell me a little bit about you and what it is you offer and how you got started. I tell them, write your number down. That’s how they make their living. What they’re selling it for. Our site is a very nice site but it’s got a lot of information. I remember the email said something about, “give her the key right away.”Cause they knew they were wrong. Sandra: Dave, how many have you seen that you actually had to pay off out of how many of them you’ve had successes with? The house is new. Side note: my paralegal says that many times there is no hearing at all. When I first got started that’s how I was able to tell what I could sell a property for. That’s where you basically sue the former owner who lost it to tax sale, who didn’t pay the taxes. They start bidding and if they get eye contact with the other bidder sometimes they just keep going. Sandra:  I don’t know about that. Dave:  That’s call mediation, buy backs or workouts which could be another topic we can talk about. We’re just title people trying to clear titles, make the title companies feel comfortable, protect them, protect you, protect even the owners and mortgage holders on their due process rights and make sure that they have the chance to respond because if they don’t they may end up taking your title from you. Sandra: That’s what I like about your services. In other states we have to actually order that and that can take up to 30 days to get and it is not online. So that way I can contact the owners and I would contact them by looking up their information on the Property Praisers website. So that was my concept. Look, that lien is not wiped out and you owe us $39,000. Now that’s hard. I’m not a lawyer and don’t relish the idea of standing in front of a judge every time I want to sell a property with title insurance simply because title insurers are morbidly risk-averse. It still doesn’t because there’s always some…. Each time the court house opened after one hurricane, then another hurricane came and then when it opened again it was delayed because they had a backlog of cases that they had to go through before they take on any new cases or go on with the rest they had. I have done this without a Quiet Title. However, in America – it is part of t he Conveyancing Process and is effected on Purchase files and has been around in that Country since the 1860’s. We don’t trust that that noticing is always done right. We’ve had like three or four of those but we really only had one or two paid claims. So now you have this tax deed and that’s title. So obviously the left hand and the right hand don’t know what’s going on. I tell them exactly the same thing. Drove by the property, nobody is there.” Or, “Actually I did speak to the occupants, then you about the tax sale. The policy will also cover, up to the face amount, any loss of title or the cost of perfecting the title. First of all, there’s no way you can get a property under contract and be able to sell the paper work. Announcer: Thank you for tuning into another edition of The Queen of Tax Deeds podcast. So talk about First American, who they are, how big they are…. Now we don’t make much money on that deal, we charge the 750 upfront to pay for cost like title search and our review cause we don’t work for free but we’re not making money when we do a buy back and workout for you but we’ve protected the title company, we’ve protected you from doing a quiet title only to settle later. So while I was developing… to develop that title product I was buying mortgage foreclose properties cause it’s a knowledge based sale. Sandra:  Those are the ones we look at very carefully. You can buy the property for cash and take the risk. But if you are doing a quiet title, they do hire, you are supposed hire actually your attorney that’s representing in the quiet title with hire an attorney. So we skip trace Sandra and I see that if I was doing the noticing on behalf of the tax collector and I found Sandra over here, well the tax collector should have found her over there using reasonable due diligence and that’s what the court say. That insurance can be vital to maintaining your investment portfolio and keeping your investing going smoothly. It’ll tell you who the owners are and where the owners live. You should have told Wells Fargo,” hey we got notice. So I found a home owner, presented them with an offer, they accepted that offer. And even those that probably didn’t even sign up for the service and later on wanted it. Dave: Well, we’ve only had one… Two paid claims in 15,000 orders. We knew about it but we’re letting it go.” “Ok well Sandra I could actually file a quiet title and sue you in court and that just get really messy. Let’s say Dave and Sandra were the owners of the property. Yes, I had a property under contract and what I did was, I found another investor. In other states we’ve worked, we work for Stewart Title. While most home purchases are completed with very little hassle, some do involve issues with the title. Make sure nobody else can see it but have it in front of you and do not go… like I actually do ranges. It was a big title Insurance companies, first American title and their management trainee position was, you start in the mail room and you work your way up but because I was studying mortgage foreclosures… Mortgage foreclosure boom was hitting in the early 90s and about that time the Title Insurance industry had never had any title products that went after mortgage foreclosures. The purpose of a quiet title action is to eliminate all claims to title, which might stand in the way of a title insurance company issuing a clear title insurance policy. Dave:  Sure. Sandra: I do. National Real Estate Investors – a parent organization to many real estate investor association throughout the United States. I was their Treasure Coast Reporter, covered everything that was going on from Vero Beach through Palm Beach and Northern and Broward County as well. So I would come in at 6 in the morning and from 6 – 8am I would punch out my quota on the easy searches and then I’d rock my brain, research pieces on mortgage foreclosures and commercial and I mastered that and became the expert for the company which eventually to them… My boss being asked who is your best mortgage foreclosing title searcher cause we’re starting this brand new national title unit and mortgage foreclosures, who is that? And we issue a certificate to them. The foreclosing Attorney. Title Insurance has only been in the Australian market for about 12 years – before then it did not exist. That’s normal but, Sandra: You know on the one that I did they even broke into the property, change the locks and put a different lock box on, everything had a little file number on the lock. 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Which make sure you control the title. just from knowledge and all time! Bit more towards the tax sale year long though it was going to but! The addresses of these and put in people in buyback workouts we even own our own home and now owe. To sign up and explore your Services, tell us what they need to the.